Curse

JYX · Oct 28, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

uh yes you still need damage if you want to break the treshhold for the kill. If someone randomly knocks me down with hammer bash i lol, get up, and carry on with my business.

After three seconds with your ass planted firmly on the floor. 2 eviscerates/executioner's planted in your face and maybe a quick shatter if your prot monk starts reacting. Since when was this a solo game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

now lets see about this situational condition that makes heavy bash so worthless
so you do devastating -> crushing -> heavy..... do you know how many times someone actually removed the weakness before i hit them with heavy? I never even remember seeing this happen so ill say less than 3 times out of 100 combos.

You assume incorrectly. Thats not the only thing that makes heavy blow inferior to hammer bash. The chance of someone casting mend ailment on themselves is one thing, the chance of a removal, restoration or a martyr going off in the ~3-4 seconds since your Devastating is not inconcievable. In a balanced build, especially since we're now seeing a lot more protting as a reaction to spike, the chances of one of these going off is not unlikely.

In addition to this, there is another problem. What if you just killed your target in the hits before your heavy blow? Then your 6 adrenaline is wasted, whereas with bash, you can turn around and take someone out of the game for 3 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

So is ditching the crucial extra damage of heavy blow for hammer bash just to remove the very small chance someone is going to remove weakness in less than 2 seconds?

Its not 2 seconds, certainly not less than. Your devastating goes on, then you have 2 shots, then your heavy blow goes on. This is under frenzy, you firgure out how long those swings take. The damage is not crucial, it is tantamount to another hit. Nice to have, but in the grand scheme of things, considering you're part of a 2-3 warrior group...minor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

ok now...the second argument..... so somehow your devastating hammer misses. This is not the end of the world. So what if you could still do a hammer bash you missed a crucial knockdown in your combo.

Everybody loves their combos. Difference here being you don't completely waste 6 adrenaline. You're trading that off for the equivalent of another hit? No deal for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

The monk will just get up.

Or he may get caved in still by 2 eviscs 2 exes and an irresistable. Whats your point?...The monk may just get up after your normal chain. This way at least you got something out of it, 6 adren wasted is a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

And besides whatever enchant/hex/stance that had you miss devastating will most likely still be ineffect when you do hammer bash so you may still miss that anyway.

Again you assume too much. Why are you hitting the same person? What are your disenchanters doing? Where is that mesmer with shatter? The simple fact is, Hammer Bash is more conditional...not just on weakness. Its conditional on the target not dying, its conditional on the enemy having 1 remover, its conditional on you connecting Devastating. The way to compare skills is in parallel. For this conditional effect, you get more damage...I'm not saying more damage is bad...take it if you want. In my team, with my setup...its not worth it.

Banebow · Oct 29, 2005, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

If I could create a hammer warrior that knocked down 4 times in a row but with no dmg I would do it.

I would probably try one, certianly. But we can not, so why should we not also attempt to include as much power as possible? Also, axe warriors will outdamage a hammer warrior against a monk who sits there doing nothing. Hammers stop healing as well as doing damage, and that is no small thing.

As to the large discussion about hammer bash versus heavy blow. If you have the choice between a conditional knockdown and an unconditional knockdown, the choice should always be with the unconditional one. A lot of the danger from hammers comes from being able to knock down your foes, and you need to get that as often as possible. Even a 1 in 100 chance is a large risk when your team is counting on you. Add in the fact that any team that wins in tombs often is going to have more than one condition removal, and you end up with, I don't know, a 50% chance of success with heavy blow? No thank you.

Taurus · Oct 29, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Ive been a Smiting Hammerdin for ages in GW, just a tip, dont rely so much on adrenal kd skills, purge conds pwns dev. hammer easily ( instant casting ), plus if someone is blocking or evading u, ur useless.

entropy · Oct 29, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I would probably try one, certianly. But we can not, so why should we not also attempt to include as much power as possible? Also, axe warriors will outdamage a hammer warrior against a monk who sits there doing nothing. Hammers stop healing as well as doing damage, and that is no small thing.

As to the large discussion about hammer bash versus heavy blow. If you have the choice between a conditional knockdown and an unconditional knockdown, the choice should always be with the unconditional one. A lot of the danger from hammers comes from being able to knock down your foes, and you need to get that as often as possible. Even a 1 in 100 chance is a large risk when your team is counting on you. Add in the fact that any team that wins in tombs often is going to have more than one condition removal, and you end up with, I don't know, a 50% chance of success with heavy blow? No thank you.

Umm are you agreeing or disagreeing cause if you read my post its what I was saying...

Banebow · Oct 29, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Umm are you agreeing or disagreeing cause if you read my post its what I was saying...

Translation of my earlier post:
I agree with you that knockdown is more important, I disagree with you that damage should not be a factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurus

just a tip, dont rely so much on adrenal kd skills, purge conds pwns dev. hammer easily

How handy that I am not using it for the weakness then, eh? By the way, the word is "owns". "pwns" is a silly word that probably came about by someone typing to fast

entropy · Oct 29, 2005, 05:56 AM // 05:56

But you said that axes outdamage a hammer which is why all I wanted to point out was that hammer is used for disruption not really in the sense for actual dmg.

Banebow · Oct 29, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

But you said that axes outdamage a hammer which is why all I wanted to point out was that hammer is used for disruption not really in the sense for actual dmg.

You'll notice I said they outdamage a hammer only when the monk does nothing. If he or she where to cast a heal or two, hammers would now be more effective, from the addition of disruption, so yes, I suppose I partly agree with you, that a hammer should be used for its disruptive properties.

However, this is not a topic about whether axes do more damage then hammers, or what hammers are best used for, I am sure there are many of those. It is a discussion about choosing a skill to use during a knockdown chain.

merciless · Feb 10, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

I prefer to use Holy Strike because it conserves energy when compared to Aftershock. By the way, those smiley faces are really annoying.

audioaxes · Feb 11, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by merciless

I prefer to use Holy Strike because it conserves energy when compared to Aftershock. By the way, those smiley faces are really annoying.

i prefer neither, waste of energy and attribute points
just replace your aftershock/holy strike with irresistable or mighty blow

QuixotesGhost · Feb 11, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

i prefer neither, waste of energy and attribute points
just replace your aftershock/holy strike with irresistable or mighty blow

I've always wondered where people use Mighty Blow in the chain considering it uses adrenaline, useing the skill puts you down one adrenaline so you need to space out one hit between it and any other adren skills. Plus you need to use it before you use Hammer Bash/Heavy Blow.

So do you use:

Mighty Blow -> Generic Hit or Energy-Based Attack -> (Start Knockdown Chain)

or

Devestating/Back Breaker/Earth Shaker -> Generic Hit or Energy-Based Attack -> Mighty Blow -> Generic Hit or Energy-Based Attack -> Hammer Bash/Heavy Blow

Note that even with frenzy that the 2nd method still leaves a considerable space between the 1st and 2nd knockdown unless perhaps you use Backbreaker.Anyways, I like to use Holy Strike as opposed to sticking to pure warrior becuase I can chain it on the end of Irresitable Blow against a blocking opponent. Plus Holy Strike gets past Prot Spirit too.

Quote:

and hammer bash is so much better because omg it knocks me down with no extra damage im going to die

Under Frenzy I can still chain Hammer Bash -> Crushing Blow -> Holy Strike ->
Irresitable Blow if I miss my Devestating Hammer. It's still a considerable spike.

Flyte · Feb 11, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

I've always wondered where people use Mighty Blow in the chain considering it uses adrenaline, useing the skill puts you down one adrenaline so you need to space out one hit between it and any other adren skills. Plus you need to use it before you use Hammer Bash/Heavy Blow.

So do you use:

Mighty Blow -> Generic Hit or Energy-Based Attack -> (Start Knockdown Chain)

or

Devestating/Back Breaker/Earth Shaker -> Generic Hit or Energy-Based Attack -> Mighty Blow -> Generic Hit or Energy-Based Attack -> Hammer Bash/Heavy Blow

(SNIP!)

I believe when you hit a foe with an adrenal skill, you get another point of adrenaline from it, making the generic hit worthless. I may be wrong though.

Devestating/Back Breaker/Earth Shaker -> Crushing Blow -> Mighty Blow -> Hammer Bash/Heavy Blow

Banebow · Feb 11, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Flyte is correct, mighty blow will cost one adrenaline but will give you one when it hits.

audioaxes · Feb 11, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

ya mighty blow is like a free hit, the addrenaline doesnt matter because its your addrenaline is going to get drain on heavy/hammer bash anyway

i think this is my favorite chain:

*frenzy*--->devastating->crushing->mighty->heavy->irresistable
very high damage plus its not going to kill your energy like as combos as you become a one-man spiker
in 8v8 you can just spam irresistable on their mesmer, cant evade, gets knocked down if guardian/aegis blocks it, then spike their open monk with the chain